Moonbeam ruling assistance - Rules & Game Mechanics - Dungeons & Dragons Discussion - D&D Beyond Forums (2024)

"A silvery beam of pale light shines down in a 5-foot-radius, 40-foot-high cylinder centered on a point within range. Until the spell ends, dim light fills the cylinder.

When a creature enters the spell's area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, it is engulfed in ghostly flames that cause searing pain, and it must make a Constitution saving throw. It takes 2d10 radiant damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

A shapechanger makes its saving throw with disadvantage. If it fails, it also instantly reverts to its original form and can't assume a different form until it leaves the spell's light.

Generally you can only send a spell like that to a place you can see.

it would be a slightly more gray area if he could somehow see through the wall, but otherwise, no he can't send it through the wall to the next room.

If the spell doesn't say you have to see the target there is still this general rule in the section on spellcasting:

A Clear Path to the Target

To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can't be behind total cover. If you place an area of effect at a point that you can't see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction.

Edit: I should read closer. This isn't actually a question about spellcasting.

Quote from pwhimp >>

If the spell doesn't say you have to see the target there is still this general rule in the section on spellcasting:

A Clear Path to the Target

To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can't be behind total cover. If you place an area of effect at a point that you can't see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction.

Edit: I should read closer. This isn't actually a question about spellcasting.

No, you're still right! The castermust have line of sight to the point which they are moving the origin to, and theeffect of a spell only passes through obstructionsif the spell says it can.

Quote from Sigred >>

Quote from pwhimp >>

If the spell doesn't say you have to see the target there is still this general rule in the section on spellcasting:

A Clear Path to the Target

To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can't be behind total cover. If you place an area of effect at a point that you can't see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction.

Edit: I should read closer. This isn't actually a question about spellcasting.

No, you're still right! The castermust have line of sight to the point which they are moving the origin to, and theeffect of a spell only passes through obstructionsif the spell says it can.

This is also what I was thinking. The banshee has total cover from you and your spell.

I rule that the line of effect requirement still holds. The spellcaster can't move a spell somewhere without aline of effect from them to the new location.

I am in agreement that you must be able to see the point to cast the spell, and to move the moonbeam. A wall, magical darkness, fog, or anything else that prevents you from seeing a point in space, prevents you from casting or moving it there.

Even if you knew the layout of the room or area, the requirement is to see it. If you were blind, you would have the same restriction.

Quote from Nthal >>

I am in agreement that you must be able to see the point to cast the spell, and to move the moonbeam. A wall, magical darkness, fog, or anything else that prevents you from seeing a point in space, prevents you from casting or moving it there.

Even if you knew the layout of the room or area, the requirement is to see it. If you were blind, you would have the same restriction.

That's only true when the spell specifies that you need to see the target. Moonbeam has no such restriction. I agree with the rulings re: line of effect, but Moonbeam doesnot require line of sight.

Quote from SagaTympana >>

Quote from Nthal >>

I am in agreement that you must be able to see the point to cast the spell, and to move the moonbeam. A wall, magical darkness, fog, or anything else that prevents you from seeing a point in space, prevents you from casting or moving it there.

Even if you knew the layout of the room or area, the requirement is to see it. If you were blind, you would have the same restriction.

That's only true when the spell specifies that you need to see the target. Moonbeam has no such restriction. I agree with the rulings re: line of effect, but Moonbeam doesnot require line of sight.

I disagree with your disagree :) The general rule applies still. In this case the target is "a point in range" As mentioned above:

The obstruction in my reading doesn't even have to be physically; fog or darkness work just as well, with the Moonbeam appear at the edge of the obstruction.

Quote from SagaTympana >>

That general rule only requires line of effect. Nothing about the section you’ve quoted has anything to do with sight. Obscured areas are not total cover, which is explicitly what the general rule is about.

You're both technically correct. Moonbeam does not explicitly require sight. The omission of such a statement does not constitute a specific rule, so there is nothing to override the general spellcasting rules. It only means thatit is possible for a creature totry moving it somewhere they can't see (opposed to spells which specifically demand line of sight). At that point the general rule remains in effect, and the new point of origin comes into being on the near side of the obstruction.

Yeah Nthal, what you're missing is that "cover" is a specific defined term which does not include visual-only obstructions like fog and darkness. See Chapter 9.

There's plenty of spells that are limited by not being able to see, but in general, spells do not require sight unless they specifically say so. The "clear path to the target" clause in general spellcasting is about cover, not line of sight.

Quote from Chicken_Champ >>

Yeah Nthal, what you're missing is that "cover" is a specific defined term which does not include visual-only obstructions like fog and darkness. See Chapter 9.

There's plenty of spells that are limited by not being able to see, but in general, spells do not require sight unless they specifically say so. The "clear path to the target" clause in general spellcasting is about cover, not line of sight.

There are some good points brought up, and I see the point of view on what rules apply. For example, I don't read the line I quoted as "this applies only to total cover." I read it as an example. Because I was thinking of a different set of rules about being Heavily Obscured discussed in Chapter 8. With regards to heavily obscured areas, (Darkness,Fog Cloud). Specifically:

"A creature effectively suffers from the blinded condition when trying to see something in that area."

Since they are effectively blinded, my interpretation is you cannot target the space or move a spell to that location, because it cannot be seen. How would they know they reached it? Characters don't have a magic radar that looks like a combat grid; we as players use that.

However, Chicken_Champ has a valid point, on how this impacts spell casters. In the case of a blinded archer, we have at least a clear rule on disadvantage on attacks. [Tooltip Not Found] would follow the same logic and rule. The RAW are pretty clear.

But the Area of Effect spells make all of this problematic because there is no skill check/attack roll, and the defender doesn't get a buff to AC or an assist to saving throws. Granting a character the ability to essentially ignore those conditions is a buff to the caster who casted the attack spell, and a nerf to the caster who created them. The circ*mstance I am thinking of is if I cast Blindness/Deafness on a enemy caster, now all they do is cast Moonbeam essentially making the blindness condition useless. I don't like these type of inconsistences, which is why I am in belief that if you can't see it, you can't do it. Other systems take this approach (which is more of a nice to know; another system isn't 5e after all).

In short; trying to apply logic to spells is hard :). That's why we have DM's. Fun discussion.

Thank you everyone for the replies thus far. I think after looking at the discussion this is how I have decided to rule it and i will explain a bit why.

Quote from Maestrino >>

I think that's thinking too hard about the "source" of the moonbeam. The spell creates a 5-foot radius, 40-foot (max) tall vertical pillar of light. You can move the pillar of light, but it stays a vertical pillar. It doesn't angle to come from a fixed "source" like moving a flashlight around a room. Why does it not behave like it's coming from a fixed-point source? Because magic.

that's the thing, it doesn't specifically say a pillar of light, it specifically says a BEAM. when it is created it makes a Cylinder shape, not a pillar. (wording is being picky but dnd is picky with wording i know)